To Pee or Not To Pee…Men and War

20 01 2012

I can’t stand it any longer! Four Marines relieve themselves on dead enemies that had been killing and maiming their buddies, and by the media and Pentagon leadership’s reaction you’d think there were implications on par with My Lai. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was “totally dismayed”. Really Leon Panetta? “Utterly deplorable”?!

How about this for “utterly deplorable”: The butchering of American GI’s on the streets of Mogadishu in 1993 by beheading and evisceration after being wounded and bludgeoned to death, then dragging the bodies through the streets of the city, while children dance and laugh, and women and men alike sing victory songs to Allah. Not deplorable?

Or perhaps the two 101st Airborne soldiers captured and brutally tortured and finally gutted and beheaded in Yousifayya, Iraq in 2006, all captured on video for the viewing public by the barbarian AQ pukes who then take two other American boys KIA and tie them to IED booby traps on the road to the other bodies. This incident was hardly mentioned in the media, let alone by any government officials at the time.

If that’s not “deplorable” enough Leon, how about Daniel Pearl, the civilian journalist who’s head was hacked from his bound body while his gurgling screams were drowned by his own blood. As Daniel struggled against his murderers they read from the Quran and chanted praises to Allah. Is that deplorable?!

I am amazed that the United States Government can still raise a volunteer force of the best fighting men and women in the world in light of the fact that their government officials may or may not have their backs. Now that’s “utterly deplorable”!

One specific instance that comes to mind is the bloody battle that 4 Navy SEALS who were on a surveilience mission in Afghanistan and were discovered by two Afghan goat herders. The SEALS knew if they released the herders, they were sure to bring the Taliban on them. However, if they did harm to them, their own government would crucify them. The SEALS chose to take on hundreds of Taliban rather than a civilian government who doesn’t understand war. Three of the four SEALS never came home and Marcus lives the life of a “Lone Survivor”. “Deplorable”?

War is war. It is not a football game where the rule book is enforced by umpires, close calls are reviewed in the instant replay booth,  and afterward we all shake hands and go home. The object of war is to kill the enemy and break his stuff until he quits trying to kill you. Human emotion and frustration during war sometimes drives civil people to do things that society may view as unacceptable, at least under normal conditions. How “civilized” is war anyway? It is indeed “utterly deplorable”.

Lt. Colonel Allen West, now Representative in the US Congress, suggests the Military handle the affair as follows:

“The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.

“As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.”

To Col. West I say, “Kudos”!

To a government who cannot decide if their paid military should be allowed to fight a war to a victorious end and are not willing to identify the enemy, I say this: “If our cause is not just, then get my son the hell out of Afghanistan!”

To my Marine son and his buddies I say this: “Semper Fi my brave boys; your politicians may be weak, but your people are strong!” Oooraah!

P.S. Here is a photo of a pose that General George S. Patton struck as he crossed the Rhine river, showing the Fuhrer what his thoughts were at the time. The following Patton quote was to Dwight D. Eisenhower, Supreme Commander, Allied Expeditionary Force: “…I have just pissed into the Rhine River. For God’s sake, send some gasoline.”


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11 responses

20 01 2012
John Prewett

Sadly, from the getgo America’s military involvement in the MidEast has been counter productive. Giving Islamist great propaganda rallying point and doing nothing to increase the safety of American citizens. Terrorist can still meet in most any city in the world. G.Bush did America grave damage by launching a temporal military war,… while ideologically surrendering to Islam by exonorating Islam and declaring it a “religion of peace.”

US Gov support of Islamist has been going on since USA became allied with Wahhabi dominated Saudi Arabia.

Carter supported French replacing pro-West Shah of Iran with Khomeini.

Reagan and Clinton supported Islamist terrorist.

Bushes Sr and Jr supported Islamist by eliminating Saddam Hussein of Iraq who was secular leaning.

US Gov supporting increased clout of Turkey’s Islamist.

French/American overthrow of RC Gbagbo and installation of Muslim Ouattara part of “Arab Spring” overthrows of relatively stable pro-West pro-secular regimes in favor of more hard core Islamist regimes.

Obama’s current supporting overthrow of relatively pro-West regimes in favor of Islamist is in harmony with previous POTUS.

Just comes more naturally to Barack Hussein Obama

20 01 2012
boudicabpi

Why it doesn’t offend me that 4 Marines pissed on some dead Taliban.
http://boudicabpi.boudica.us/?p=4717
Bob A.

26 01 2012
Tex Taylor

I reached this article through your link from PJmedia. Excellent synopsis. Alan West is indeed correct.

As I said on PJ Media, until I have walked a mile in an American soldiers shoes, and I have not, I’m not about to comment what to pertains to good or bad behavior of an American soldier.

Anybody that voluntarily offers to protect my family at risk of life and limb, I give a wide berth of latitude in judgment – as we all should.

26 01 2012
Holly

My husband, who is the first born of a airforce piolet who flew in Vietnam, cheered when he read your post. Good one, Kirk.

27 01 2012
Joe Kearney

The Savior, Jesus Christ, gave a personal response to this post more than 2000 years ago in what is now know as, “The sermon on the mound” by Christians the world over. Here is an English translation of His response from the Authorized King James Version of the Bible: :

43 ¶Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt alove thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore bperfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/5.43.43-48?lang=eng#39

To my understanding, the Savior uses the word “enemy” here to mean those who hate us. The savior walked his talk, He was at least civil with Satan in “the Book of Job”. He prayed for forgiveness for those who crucified him. He also clearly states we are not to lower ourselves to our enemies behavior.

Unfortunately occasions arise when we must go to war to defend the causes of our God, our wives, children, country, and neighbors. Should we not go with the intention that we will not destroy anything without being willing to replace it with something better? And when the work of death is done; should we not honorably bury our dead, honorably bury their dead, and then start to rebuild again a better world for us all. If this is not the goal of war the for what are we fighting?

27 01 2012
ingrafted

Joe, I admire your ideologically driven statement, and respect your reference to Jesus and the Scriptures. However, even in our redeemed state of faith (of which not all soldiers would profess-I do not know the spiritual status of these Marines and am not willing to question either way) while yet limited to this natural body we all still struggle with frustrations and those “sins which beset us”. Human emotion does not always submit to the guidance and promptings of the Holy Spirit and the flesh of Man acts independently of his better judgement and discretion from time to time, as I pointed out:

“Human emotion and frustration during war sometimes drives civil people to do things that society may view as unacceptable, at least under normal conditions. How “civilized” is war anyway? It is indeed “utterly deplorable”.”

I consider myself a student of history and I do not ever recall a single war which was fought on this elevated plane of virtue and morality of which you refer. Battles are won and lost “where the metal meets the meat” and there is nothing virtuous nor vile about that simple fact: It just Is. Wars on the other hand, are usually won or lost by politicians. There is a frustration that accompanies those who fight and are not allowed to win. (Perhaps that should be the subject of this larger discussion.)

A man must condition his mind to allow himself to become beastly, if only for even a moment, in order to fight and survive war. Conversely, what makes a man a man is the spirit that can contain that beast when it is no longer necessary for survival. I am sure there are those among these young men who, even before this story was made public, regretted their actions. The worse action in this case was that one of the guys recorded it.

Joe, you and I are older (I’m guessing on your part) and hopefully a bit wiser, and we can sit and philosophize and discuss the finer points of morality and virtue comfortably at our keyboards. But I am not willing to condemn these boys for an action that is quite moderate in the grand scheme of actions committed on the battlefield in the fog of war, and the immediate aftermath thereof, while adrenalin is still rushing through a mans vessels.

Are you?

28 01 2012
Joe Kearney

This ideal, of defending the capacity to pursue a better world for all, I have previously mentioned, is not solely mine. As Americans we today are all benefiting from the ideals and better world left for us by our founding fathers, which started the American Revolutionary War. The generations of citizens, of this great nation, that has proceeded between us and them, have added to this legacy, some more that others, the net result of which is that we do have, still today, a better world than when they took up there arms in their desires for freedom from tyranny. Other US military leaders shared this ideal consider these quotes from General Douglas MacArthur from http://www.tankmastergunner.com/quotes-macarthur.htm:

“Beware not the enemy from ‘without’ but the enemy from ‘within’.”

“It is my earnest hope – indeed the hope of all mankind – that from this solemn occasion a better world shall emerge out of the blood and carnage of the past, a world found upon faith and understanding, a world dedicated to the dignity of man and the fulfillment of his most cherished wish for freedom, tolerance and justice.”

“By profession I am a soldier and take pride in that fact. But I am prouder — infinitely prouder — to be a father. A soldier destroys in order to build; the father only builds, never destroys. The one has the potentiality of death; the other embodies creation and life. And while the hordes of death are mighty, the battalions of life are mightier still. It is my hope that my son, when I am gone, will remember me not from the battle field but in the home repeating with him our simple daily prayer, ‘Our Father Who Art in Heaven.’”

“I have known war as few men now living know it. It’s very destructiveness on both friend and foe has rendered it useless as a means of settling international disputes.”

It is clear that an error in judgment has been made by these four marines. In pointing out their error I have neither condemned them nor proscribed any punishment from myself. My only desire is to stand on the side of the road as a one way sign pointing to “The Way”: home to heaven. I am a firm believer in the principle of repentance for us all, including these young men, if we will but seek it. This is the very reason why Heaven Father gave us a Savior. He knew we would not be able to go through mortality with out making mistakes. The way had to be made available for repentance to be possible and our sins remitted in order for us to return to heaven:

37 And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/11.37?lang=eng#36

Too many Christians have forgotten what the Apostle James said about the problem of retaining even one un-repented sin. Any one sin, regardless of its perceived magnitude, is enough to keep us from returning to our Father in Heaven.

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/james/2.8.8-10?lang=eng#4

John 3:16 is one of the most often quoted verses in the Bible. But John 3:17-20 fewer people know as well which talks about being saved and condemned:

16 ¶For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 ¶He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/john/3.16.16-20?lang=eng#12

I am not anyone’s judge. That is the Saviors roll. But we all have a responsibility to share what we know.
14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/1-thes/5.14.14-15?lang=eng#11

These young men are not merely marines they are US Marines as such they are representatives of The United States of America. There are international rules of engagement in war that we, on our nation’s honor, have pledged to uphold, including the honorable treatment of our enemy’s dead. As one of the aforementioned quotes from General Douglas MacArthur states; war does not settle international disputes. War is settled through the development of relationships of trust, though the least favorable, the total annihilation of one’s opposition is one such relationship. It is when these relationships are not honored that wars start or are needlessly prolonged. These four US Marines dishonored themselves, their Corps, Country, the international relationships their Country has established and most importantly their God, regardless if they know of Him or not.

We all must learn what “unruly and evil” behavior is. As Individuals and societies we have the God given right and gift of “Agency”, the right to freely choose or own thoughts, actions, and destinies; as some of these previous verses mentioned, with the gift of “Agency” also comes both the responsibility and accountability to that God which gave us this gift. God would be an unkind and unjust God if he held us accountable for some behavior, thought, or desire that is beyond our individual capacity to control; Heavenly Father is kind, just, and merciful; this is why the gift of “Agency,” our freedom to choose, is so important; we have the agency to pursue a choice or not regardless of the conditions or situations we may find ourselves in, war time or peace.

All choices have a respective consequence. One can not plant pumpkin seeds and grow apples. If one’s desired consequence or outcome is to grow apples then one must plant apple seeds and only apple seeds in order to harvest apples. Again to have a desired outcome we must make the choice which produces that outcome. We have our “Agency.” If one desires to grow only apples, from seeds, one is free to choose to plant apple, pumpkin, tomato, any other or no seeds at all. But no apples will be harvested unless the choice to plant apple seeds is made.

My desire is not to condemn these young men but to give them hope. If we make mistakes and are responsible and accountable for them then where is or hope of ever being saved, of ever being given the opportunity to return to the Kingdom of Heaven? Our hope is in our faith in Jesus Christ. Our hope is that the “Almighty” God is “powerful enough” to extend to us His power, His Grace, so that we may be forgiven and redeemed from our sins as we choose to exercise due diligence, through the use of our gift of “Agency,” in learning to live his teachings and follow his example. Only then is the opportunity to return to the Kingdom of Heaven made available to each of us.

23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/25.23.23?lang=eng#20

This is why I stand, as a one way sign, along the side of the road, pointing to “The Way”: home to heaven. So that when mistakes are made the truth may be known.

Joe Kearney

1 02 2012
Mark Pickett

This is what Ann Barnhardt had to say about this…..

” I have little sympathy for men who live their lives wiping their anuses with their bare hands after bowel movements, and who view as the pinnacle of human pleasure inserting their genitals and depositing their semen into the feces-laden rectums of boys and other men, who suddenly get squeamish about dead bodies being sprinkled with a bit of urine – which is sterile by the way. Those dead Taliban were probably the cleanest they had ever been in their adult lives after being showered with the righteous tinkles of those Marines. Ooh-rah. That is all. Carry on”.

27 05 2012
the unit

New here, so going through some previous postings. I was 3 when pic of Patton taken. First time seeing it…it’s like seeing Niagara Falls for the first time! Victorious is as victorious does.

27 05 2012
ingrafted

Indeed, it does bring a smile to one’s face to see confident and capable leadership!

19 09 2012
Foreign Policy Alinsky Style: Libya, Cairo, and Gay Ambassadors « Defining the Narrative

[...]  (Personally, I could care less about burning the Koran, mocking the prophet or Marines pissing on dead Taliban.  My point is the hypocrisy here is overwhelming.)  The Shari’a calls for punishments of [...]

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